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D'Souza countered Ayers on slavery by referring to Lincoln and arguing that starting with the Civil War, the history of the United States is a history of fighting to end slavery and establish racial equality.

In the cross-examination section of the loosely formatted debate, D'Souza asked, "You started your career in the bin Laden mode, but now you sound like a professor. What happened to the revolutionary? Did you lose your revolutionary zeal?"

The two then argued over the Holocaust, the question of the Gulf War and why no weapons of mass destruction were found when George H.W. Bush invaded Iraq and deposed Saddam Hussein.

"The U.S. always lies us into war," Ayers insisted. "We fight wars in the Middle East for democracy, but we're an empire, grabbing for resources, and the wars in the Middle East were about oil."

On the subject of that Constitution, D'Souza said, "We act like there is a presumption in favor of the First Amendment and a heavy burden to be met defending the Second Amendment. I'm just saying, we should give the same respect to the Second Amendment as we give to the First Amendment."

In questions and answers, Ayers pressed D'Souza to give a "full-throated support for queer rights."

"I believe in the United States we are all a minority of one and we are each entitled to the full rights made available to us in the Bill of Rights," D'Souza said.

Then he asked Ayers if he would support fully the rights of evangelical Christians to be recognized, to be protected from "derogatory comments from other citizens."

D'Souza got strong applause countering Ayers.

"I submit that if you were a professor here before the tenure committee, the defender of queer theory would have every reason to expect to be promoted, while the evangelical Christian would have to hide his true views," D'Souza challenged.

The focus on religion was one of the points that had staying power.

"I'm allowed to have my religious beliefs in private, but I'm not allowed to have them in the public square?" D'Souza asked.

"My point is that you can't put a statue of Moses or Jesus in the public arena, that would be the government endorsing [religion]," Ayers said.

"But you have no problem with government removing all religious symbols from the public square and you don't see that as government endorsing atheism or secularism?" D'Souza said. "I want the public square open to both Moses and the 10 Commandments and to Voltaire."

"I think libertarians get it right in that they oppose government," Ayers said.

D'Souza agreed. "I think whatever the government does, it does badly. But libertarians are inconsistent on the issue of foreign policy. Jefferson asked why should we be the only people who are free? I don't believe in fighting wars to free other people, but I celebrated the fall of the Berlin Wall."

Ayers attacked Obamacare not because of the lies that have surrounded it, its cancellation of coverage for millions, its high prices, deductibles and co-pays, or the fact consumers no longer will have their policies, their doctors, their medicines or their hospitals.

He called it "a very poor law" that amounts to corporate welfare, "giving hundreds of millions of dollars to the insurance industry."

D'Souza supports Israel as a "little outpost of Western civilization," and said that Iran is the legacy of Jimmy Carter who trashed U.S. support of the shah and left the world with the radical revolution of Ayatollah Khomeini and Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons.

"We didn't take Nelson Mandela off the terrorist list until 2006," Ayers argued. "We didn't support Nelson Mandela in the years when he was a freedom fighter."

Ayers went from supporting Mandela as a radical terrorist in his early years to attacking Israel.

"Israel is an apartheid state and it is ridiculous the United States gives Israel the money the United States gives," Ayers said. "Israel is a colonial power that has systematically pushed out the indigenous people."

"American exceptionalism leaves us with a sense that we are the best and everybody should be like us?," Ayers asked in his concluding statement. "Why would we argue we are the most important and that everybody else should fall down? It's an arrogance that is not only foolish but also dangerous. We are rich with beauty and vicious in human denial - having championed slavery, supporting Israel, fighting wars in Iraq and the Middle East where we don't belong. We should fight to stretch our imaginations to include all that there is. The situation where we are with education is catastrophic because we have constructed education like we are now constructing health care - as a market. Education is a right and education in a democracy is based on the incalculable value of everyone."

In his concluding remarks, D'Souza argued, "America is the great defender of wealth creation. America created the great sense of possibility. All I'm saying is that we should realize we have a good formula and we should fight to widen the pie for everybody, not just to redistribute the pie."

D'Souza's film, "2016: Obama's America," is to be followed soon by a new project, called "America."

His appearance has been overshadowed by the recent accusation from authorities that he donated more than the legal requirement to the 2006 campaign of Republican Wendy Long, who lost the race for the U.S. Senate seat in New York that had been vacated by Hillary Clinton.

The indictment charges D'Souza donated $20,000 to Long's campaign by aggregating the money from various people and falsely reporting the source of the funds.

As WND reported, many of D'Souza's defenders see the indictment as the administration exacting revenge over D'Souza's film.

His new "America" is scheduled for release July 4, and it is predicted to become a thorn in Obama's side because of the prosecution against D'Souza.

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